Gentlemen,
Can you comment on the unsprung weight of the entire front wheel and suspension assembly ?
The mass of the suspension arms, the steering upright / brake caliper bracket, scissor joint and wheel hub center appear to be quite a lot of mass for the front shock to handle.
Otherwise great work !
Hello Joe, thank you for the question (which Ive only just become aware of) about the front end sprung weight. Apologies for this VERY late reply. 🙁
The combined weight of our front end (wheel hub, control arms, steering arms including the brake caliper and the scissor links) is actually less than the weight of normal telescopic front ends. Because the front end is triangulated it can carry hundreds of times its own weight for less material.
Even though our system looks heavy, it’s mass is machined away, so it is light weight but also very strong. We have actually over engineered our front end system for our first Moto2 prototype and from our testing on track can further reduce the sprung weight and unsprung weight of the whole design.
The scissor links that attach the steering are actually negligible weight as the top of the scissor arm is hanging off the steering head stock and thus not part of the sprung weight.
The Single front shock absorber can easily handle the sprung weight of the front end and the geometry changes that can be introduced into the offset parallel swing arms give us many more variations to work with than are available to a telescopic fork system.
I hope this answers your question.
Again, our apologies for the long wait.
Safe riding.
Ray
The unsprung mass of this suspension setup should not be too great as many of the components have been dramatically cut out to reduce the mass. The heavy ends of the ‘A’ arms are toward the frame ends negating the effect of the mass. The critical point to remember is that the steered mass has been considerably reduced as the springs and dampers are no longer being swung back and forth.
A small detail that might cause a problem though is that the joints between the scissor linkage and either end may need extra joints. When the steering is brought round to the lock position there could be a slight deviation between the axis of the handlebar pivot and the wheel carrier axis. This could be rectified with a two axis joint like a universal joint.
I have dabbled with a Hassock style front end and realised that you can develop some interesting geometry using swing arms of very unequal lengths. A 2:1 ratio is possible and if the front joints are further apart the dive characteristics can be finely tuned.
Keep up the good work. MoCo
Thanks for the question about the scissor link system MoCo and apologies for the late reply.
You are right in pointing out that the scissor link can affect the steering, especially the bump steer of the front wheel. By varying the length of the upper sheer link and using a spherical bearing instead of a rose joint in the scissor link we have been able to limit bump steer to its absolute minimum.
I’d love to see your application of universal joints to make our system even better.
Regards Ray
Ryan
Can’t wait
Joe
Gentlemen,
Can you comment on the unsprung weight of the entire front wheel and suspension assembly ?
The mass of the suspension arms, the steering upright / brake caliper bracket, scissor joint and wheel hub center appear to be quite a lot of mass for the front shock to handle.
Otherwise great work !
Colin Oddy
Hello Joe, thank you for the question (which Ive only just become aware of) about the front end sprung weight. Apologies for this VERY late reply. 🙁
The combined weight of our front end (wheel hub, control arms, steering arms including the brake caliper and the scissor links) is actually less than the weight of normal telescopic front ends. Because the front end is triangulated it can carry hundreds of times its own weight for less material.
Even though our system looks heavy, it’s mass is machined away, so it is light weight but also very strong. We have actually over engineered our front end system for our first Moto2 prototype and from our testing on track can further reduce the sprung weight and unsprung weight of the whole design.
The scissor links that attach the steering are actually negligible weight as the top of the scissor arm is hanging off the steering head stock and thus not part of the sprung weight.
The Single front shock absorber can easily handle the sprung weight of the front end and the geometry changes that can be introduced into the offset parallel swing arms give us many more variations to work with than are available to a telescopic fork system.
I hope this answers your question.
Again, our apologies for the long wait.
Safe riding.
Ray
MoCo
The unsprung mass of this suspension setup should not be too great as many of the components have been dramatically cut out to reduce the mass. The heavy ends of the ‘A’ arms are toward the frame ends negating the effect of the mass. The critical point to remember is that the steered mass has been considerably reduced as the springs and dampers are no longer being swung back and forth.
A small detail that might cause a problem though is that the joints between the scissor linkage and either end may need extra joints. When the steering is brought round to the lock position there could be a slight deviation between the axis of the handlebar pivot and the wheel carrier axis. This could be rectified with a two axis joint like a universal joint.
I have dabbled with a Hassock style front end and realised that you can develop some interesting geometry using swing arms of very unequal lengths. A 2:1 ratio is possible and if the front joints are further apart the dive characteristics can be finely tuned.
Keep up the good work. MoCo
Colin Oddy
Thanks for the question about the scissor link system MoCo and apologies for the late reply.
You are right in pointing out that the scissor link can affect the steering, especially the bump steer of the front wheel. By varying the length of the upper sheer link and using a spherical bearing instead of a rose joint in the scissor link we have been able to limit bump steer to its absolute minimum.
I’d love to see your application of universal joints to make our system even better.
Regards Ray